Learning to Build Resiliency to Deal
With the Unforeseen
Wrangling the Double Black Swan
With Ken Larson, President of Champion Performance Systems Inc.
Duration: 60mins, Released May 06, 2021
Learn how to get your energy going, provide clarity and cultivate resiliency to allow you and your team to tame the Double Black Swan.
Ken Larson, President of Champion Performance Systems Inc. gives us the skills to deal more effectively with the tumultuous events hitting the oil and gas industry, our personal lives, and our community.
Ken holds a bachelor’s degree in Human Performance, a master’s degree in Performance Psychology, and is a Certified Executive Coach, and Certified Scaling Up Coach. He is an international keynote speaker, corporate trainer, team facilitator, human performance consultant. He works one on one with high performing CEO’s, Presidents and Owners, and works with their leadership teams to facilitate and optimize organizational growth.
About The Pandell Leadership Series
The Pandell Leadership Series is a collection of free webinars featuring presentations by energy industry experts in a variety of specialized fields. Topics range from global business issues to recommended best practices in oil and gas; pipelines; mining; utilities; and the renewable energy industry (including wind, solar, hydrogen, geothermal, marine & hydrokinetic, nuclear and biomass power).
Please Note: Views and opinions expressed by the PLS presenter(s) do not necessarily represent the views of Pandell and its representatives.
DEAN WITH PANDELL Thank you to everyone for attending today. I’d really like to introduce the keynote speaker. Ken Larson holds a bachelor’s degree in human performance; a master’s degree in performance psychology; and he’s a certified executive coach; and a certified scaling up coach. Ken is currently President of Champion Performance Systems Inc. He’s an international keynote speaker, a corporate trainer, a team facilitator, and a human performance consultant.
KEN Thanks Dean. That was awesome. That was the second-best introduction that I’ve had this week. Earlier in the week I had to do it myself because the guy couldn’t make it. No, I’m just kidding, come on. It’s hard to do these when you don’t have the crowd to at least laugh or chuckle or something and I can’t see you folks but such as the world is, it is today.
I’m really excited to be here with you folks today. In the coaching world over the past, well year and a half now or more, this whole COVID thing has just really tossed everyone for a loop. And so, what I’d like to do today is share what I’ve learnt, not only before all of this hit and the double black swan we’re dealing with today, in today’s times but also share with you some examples of what I have found out has worked for others, and our clients, and friends, and relatives, and so forth.
Alright, let’s get into this whole thing. I trust you can all see my screen around wrangling this double black swan.
So, the first thing I want to share with you is how to get into position. Those of you that don’t know me, normally when I get in a room and I’m on stage, the first question people have is how tall are you? And I joke and say, I’m 5 foot 20. But I’m 6’8” and I played basketball. Yes, I did. People say, “Do you play basketball?” You know I did all those routines.
So, I’ve got a couple of stories from my basketball days. I played for Canada for four years. So, I got to travel around the world on taxpayer’s dollars. Which was very nice. And got to play against the likes of some guy named ah Jordan, I think his name was. Yeah, Michael Jordan. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, yep, we lost that’s for sure.
I’ll never forget this. Our coach was teaching us a new zone defense when I was at the University of Victoria. And we weren’t getting it. We’re misunderstanding. We’re all out of position and he was getting madder and madder about to blow a fuse. And he got to the point where he was dragging guys from one place to the next. Coach: “No, you’re supposed to be over here, you’re supposed to be over here.” We’re looking at each other and going, What the hell is going on here?
And finally, he stopped, and we thought he was going to have an aneurysm, or a heart attack, or something but he just paused. And he said, “Guys, you’ve got to be in position before you can be in position.” And we’re looking at him going, What are you talking about Coach? He said, “You can’t guard a guy over there if you’re way over there. You can’t guard a guy on the court if you’re stuck on the bench.” So, we’re all going, Okay, now we get this. Alright.
So, the metaphor became you can’t be in position before you can be in position to do what you need to do. So, what is it that we the people have to do in this double black swan time in order to get into position to manage and handle it, and maybe even be inspired by and take advantage of it? So, that’s kind of the overview of our presentation today.
So, as far as getting in position is concerned. First thing I want to do is cover three general topics here today and of course they are related.
The first one is our purpose is to gain some perspective on what’s really going on, not only out there but in here. And by in here I mean inside ourselves. Inside our ourselves, inside of our families, and our little bubbles. So, we’re going to make sure we gain some perspective.
Second thing I want to make sure we do is try to build some resiliency. I’ve done a lot of studies, in fact my master’s thesis was built around resiliency. So, what used to work then, works equally if not better than now in these crazy times. I want to talk about how to build resiliency.
And the third thing is, is to learn how to inspire ourselves. Motivation can kind of run dry sometimes. Inspiration is very, very different and I’ll explain the difference between those two. And do my best to set you folks up to start inspiring yourselves through these times.
So, that’s our purpose for the day and to get us in position.
Okay. First question is, what’s going on out there? And I don’t think it’s any kind of secret that COVID and the economy are the big ones right now. The two double black swans that we are dealing with. And I’m not sure about you folks but all of us are seeing it through a different lens, at different times.
You know, no one saw this coming. It hit, it hit hard. Then it hit harder. Then it got soft. Then it hit harder again. It’s just going up and down and all over the place. All of us are managed now a little bit differently. Not only personally, professionally as well, not to mention families, communities, and so forth. There’s so many ways to look at this.
And COVID’s kicked the crap out of a lot of us especially if you look at the economy as well and the line of work that you folks are in. It’s taking it on the chin and things are not going well and who knows when that will end. And that’s why my question is, you know to everybody is, you know, will this ever end?
There’s a new normal coming. Everyone thinks it’s here. I don’t think it’s landed yet. Is it here yet? Is it done? Can we now get used to it? Can we still get some levels of certainty with what’s going on right now? And I don’t think so. And I’m not trying to be a pessimist here, I’m trying to be strategic about the view that I have a this. But watching all our clients not only personal and professional individual coaching clients but the teams and the businesses that we work with. People want this new normal to settle down. Some have accepted. Some are looking for the next level. Some are just kind of going through the motions. So, which ones are we?
So, there’s not a whole lot else to talk about here other than what people are doing with this. The whole COVID piece is kicking the crap out of a few. Others are taking advantage of it. And I think we have a pretty good sense of which is which. The economy, especially in your line of work, is taking it on the chin, not going well. So, how do we go about individually managing and tacking this?
So, my next slide is around, well if we know what’s going on out there, what’s going on inside us? What’s happening here? Guess what, nobody is surprised by this in any way shape or form, all kinds of stress, but everyone is dealing with it differently. And here’s what I’m seeing is all these different sources of stress. I think a lot of us are suffering from isolation. Either, we are actually being quarantined, God forbid anyone has actually got COVID okay so just want to put that out of the way.
But isolation and being stuck in our homes. Now you can see behind me, you’ve already have seen behind me, my home office. I’ve been working out of my home office for quite some time now. The only thing I would do was travel outside. See friends and relatives and go to businesses for my meetings. So, now yeah isolation hurts.
The uncertainty. People don’t know what’s going on. A lot of us don’t do well in uncertain times. So, uncertainty is a source of stress. Of course, it’s putting pressure on relationships. People who normally would go to work. A husband and wife would go to work and skip their kids to childcare. Guess what, now they’re both home. They’re both accessing Wi-Fi at the same time, both on zoom calls or team calls or whatever else. Plus, you’ve got kids running around. Plus, some of them have got pets crawling all over them. And maybe at some point behind me you might see my desk cat, Willow, she likes to get involved in these as well.
So, that uncertainty of what’s going on in the relationship pressures. Lack of control. Some of us are a little bit more control freaks than others. Those who need more control who don’t have it now, that’s another source of stress. And of course, no view to the future that’s a big one. Many of us like to look out into the future, make plans, and goals, and dreams, but all the bets are off now.
Some people are dealing with the whole COVID situation in my eyes, very, very well. They’re taking advantage of it. They’ve got a solid foundation for which to build on and it’s putting them into position to be in position so to speak to actually do well in these tough times both with COVID and the economy.
I see a second group of people who are caving in and they’re not doing well at all. And you know we can get down to a path around personal habits and choices and stuff, they’re not doing well. Then I find there’s this group in the middle that just goes, meh, and just kind of rolls with it the best that they can and just kind of survives and tolerates it.
This is the next one that I think is rather interesting, rapid change and then no change. All of sudden things change very, very rapidly and then there was no change. We just got into a kind of a stagnant place and then bang rapid change again and another wave hits. And then we all kind of get into a no change place again. So, it’s kind of a white noise rapid change, no change kind of peace.
And then of course fatigue. The coin term that everyone is saying these days is covid-tigue. And I think everyone responds to this a little bit differently and a little uniquely. We can go down the list of the 51 of you people in this room right now and say, “How are you managing covid-tigue? What are the symptoms look like? What are you dealing with? What are the stresses that you’re managing? What might be some sources of strength that maybe you can draw upon? And the answers will probably be different for everyone, if not, well they would be. They’d be different for everyone.
What’s the result of this kind of perfect storm around these double black swans? Is the state of fear. I think a lot of people are in fear of what’s next. Or they’re in fear of taking forward with them their pasts that didn’t work for them. Now they’re not working for them even more. So, all kinds of sources of fear that are going on right now.
So, that’s what’s going on. Here’s the big question, is there an end in sight? And some of us will say, yeah, it’s going to be over, and I’ve got an RV company. That if you can imagine that last, when COVID hit last year, they sold out in a heartbeat. People decided not to travel because they couldn’t and said, Hey let’s go out into the wilderness and get in our RV. All those they sold out in a hurry. So, now they’ve stepped up for this summer and they’re in position to take advantage of that and do well. But people need to get out there and relieve some stress and there’s no end in sight, what are we planning to do?
Those of us that need to plan, can’t. You can try all you want. I’ll say well I’ll put our plan in place but when the time comes, we’ll do it. That’s great too. But we’re all managing this so differently and so uniquely.
How do we get clarity on what’s really going on? I’m not sure if any of you have ever read Stephen Covey, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Brilliant piece, it was the first real self-help book that I read quite some time ago and it changed my life. In fact, I was honored enough to go out and teach the 7 habits of highly effective people as an employee or a contract with Franklin Covey for a couple of years. Where I taught, I don’t know, a couple of hundred times and it blew me away.
And one of the concepts I want to share with you guys here today out of that particular book. It’s not a new one, but it makes a ton of sense for people. You know what circle are you in from a perspective point of view? Are you in a circle of concern? Or are you in a circle of influence?
So, the circle of concern is this big circle out there. All the things that we’re concerned with in our lives. Inside that circle is a sub-circle called the circle of influence. These are the things we have influence over. These things we do not. And I can’t tell you how many times I get a new client onboard, in fact we had a call just recently, I don’t remember the guy’s name and I would never breach confidence anyway, but he basically reached out to me for some coaching. And his challenge is, he can’t stop watching the news, he can’t stop paying attention to the markets, he’s way out here in his circle of concern and that’s where he’s getting his source of stress. So, if I do end of coaching this man, I’m going to try to help him find a way to get into his circle of influence.
And inside that circle of influence there’s a whole lot less stress that’s for sure. We spend all of our time out here what happens to our circle of influence? It does this [circle made with hands is getting smaller] and this is where stress exists (motioning with hands outside of the circle) because we don’t have any influence. When we make conscious choices to get out of that circle of concern and get into that circle of influence more consistently what does it do? (Circle made with hands, getting larger) It grows and that’s where we want to be.
So, what circle are you in? Are you in your circle of concern too much or are you in your circle of influence? In our clients, and friends, and relatives we see all kinds of different approaches. Oh, I watch the news constantly, or I don’t watch it at all, I choose not to watch it. Okay, there are extremes there. If you’re not going to watch it, what are you going to focus on? Well, I’m going to focus on just my bubble, and just my health, and just my family, blah, blah, blah. Great, awesome.
What can you influence that’s going to help you grow your circle, decrease your stress? So, I think that’s a big one all of us have to take into consideration. I know I find myself falling outside my circle of influence frequently and I fall into a circle of concern. Sometimes it’s an interesting conversation with a colleague or a loved one but then what do we do?
Shift back into the circle of influence and figure out what it is that I can influence and have some element of influence and control over. And like I said earlier, some of us may need a little bit more control more than others so that may be a tip for many of us in that regard.
So, what can I do? What can I do when I get this clarity between influence and control, or sorry concern? Understand what’s really going on out there and get an accurate view as possible. Figure out what’s going on inside. So, we have clarity around that. Cause I’m a big believer and this is one of our core values at my organization, is clarity is king. And it’s my honest belief that if we don’t have clarity, we have nothing. Especially when it comes to communication, and plans, and activities if we don’t have clarity about that, we don’t have anything at all.
Often, I’ll get leadership teams together where the leader has a point of clarity around what he or she wants, the rest of the team is going, What are you talking about? And I’ll go around the room, and I’ll ask each individual, write down what you’ve just heard. And let’s say there’s seven people in the room. Okay, tell us. Do it independently. Tell us what you heard. We’ll get seven different answers.
Okay, what does that tell us? We don’t have clarity. Okay, what position does that put us in to make the right strategic decisions for our company? Ahh, it doesn’t. Ah, what do we do now? So, we have to get clarity.
So, from a personal perspective this is where I’m coming at from this one here. In this double black swan pandemic, you guys are all professionals in your industry. Many of our colleagues have lost their jobs, all kinds of stuff going on.
So, I’m always big on foundation building and that's what I want to share with you next. What makes up your foundation? And the great metaphor for this is around a home. All of us live in homes, or apartments, or some kind of building. Thank you for being in the western world and being in Canada. How solid is the foundation?
If you look around the world, some of the third world countries sure they live in shacks or maybe homes, but the foundation is not there. A big monsoon comes through, a thunderstorm, earthquake, whatever else happens. Guess what the home is gone because the foundation wasn’t strong enough. That’s a great metaphor for us personally.
So, what makes up your foundation? What parts can we reflect on internally to have a look at our foundation. Figure out what works, what doesn’t, what needs to change? And then continue to throw some gas on that fire, mixed metaphors there, in order for us to build our foundations.
First question I have to you, which I ask all of our clients and sometimes it throws people for a curve. What matters most to you? What really matters most to you? So, what I’m referring to here is core values. What matters? If we distill down what matters to you, what will those things be? And when I deal with clients it’s anywhere from five to seven items that when languaged properly that provide incredible clarity that’s where part of our foundation comes from.
So, if that’s the case what might be an example of a core value? A lot of the time I hear honesty. Okay, great. Integrity. Great. Trust. Great. Great starts. What else might there be? I’m pretty sure almost everybody would say those three, a call to hit. What is it that matters to you most and how do you figure that out?
I guarantee you all of you are operating from a place of your own core values, you may not know them. How many of us operate from someone else’s core values cause that’s the way we were brought up? How do we know if our core values are actually ours?
I blew, what did I blow out? I didn’t blow out my knees that time, it was something different. I was in a gym working out with a trainer some years ago and I played a practical joke on him. And he vowed to get me back. So, I went over to the gym that day at lunchtime and I didn’t have much food in me, so I was a little on the hypoglycemic side. And Scott, my trainer says, “Alright, we’re going to kick your butt today.” Okay, great bring it on. I can take a challenge. And sure enough halfway through the workout I went to get a drink of water and my eyes crossed. I won’t do that on screen cause it’s kind of creepy. But my eyes crossed, and they wouldn’t got back.
So, long story short I got into the neurological unit at the University of Calgary. Up on the very top floor, the 11th floor I believe it was, I was in a corner room, with a nice big window overlooking the mountains. It was magnificent, it was amazing. I was there for a week. I had every test known to mankind done to me. My eyes eventually came back to normal about the third day. And they did all these tests, and they eventually said, “We don’t know what happened to you?” I said, “Okay, fine.”
But while I was there, I laid on that bed and the job I was in wasn’t working for me. My personal habits were not working for me. My family situation was not working well. And I laid there and took the advice of one of my former coaches, and I got my journal out and started to write what matters to me most. And I had lots of language. I had verbal diarrhea all over the place. And then I would revisit it every day and cut this out and change this. And eventually I got the thesaurus and dictionary out and started playing around with some more language.
And then I think it was the second to last day my wife and daughter came in to visit and I was in tears. And they wondered, what’s wrong, what’s wrong? I just smiled. I was in tears of joy like I figured out what my core values were. And they still stand today. I have five. I’m not going to share them right now on screen if anybody wants to know about them, I’d be more than happy to share elsewhere but when I do share everybody goes, “Oh yeah that’s what I want too.” Well, no, you’ve got to figure it out for yourself. So, I’ve got a little exercise that I give our clients and they can do that. But those five became the foundation for my life.
And under tough times, going back to the foundation metaphor, they are my rock and that’s what I stand on. And when the …**… hits the fan, oops sorry. When bad stuff happens, I’m able to stand on that foundation solidly and be able to make solid choices. So, please I encourage everybody. If you don’t know what your personal core values are excavate them. You’ve already got them I guarantee. You just have to uncover them, and pour some clarity on them, and then act in accordance to those.
I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve gone into organizations – in fact one good story was, I went in to visit a vice president of a company here in Calgary. I walked up to the receptionist, and I said, “Hi lady I’m Ken Larson and I’m here to speak to so and so.” [Receptionist] “Oh great I’ll tell him you’re here. Can I get you coffee, water, or tea?” I said, “No I’m good. Thank you.” So, I went to sit down, and I thought, I’m going to try something. So, I went back and said, “Excuse me miss, I’m curious what your organization’s vision, mission, and purpose is, and your core values.” [Receptionist] “Oh, ahh it’s interesting you ask that we just went through a three-month exercise on that. Let me call one of the other vice presidents because he was the one who led us through that. It was quite extensive. It was really good.” I went, “Okay, great.”
So, I thought of stopping it, but I thought I’m going to let this run. So, the other vice president comes out. “Hi, I’m Ken Larson I’m here to see so and so down the hall that way. I understand you just went through a process of excavating your vision, your mission, your purpose and your values. How was that like?” [Vice President] “Oh, it was amazing. And we had focus groups, and we met over the weekends. And we put all the paperwork together and we went around, and we surveyed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And I went, “Okay, that’s awesome. So, what are they?” And I get (open mouth, blank stare). Then I get, [Vice President] “It’s in my office in a binder. I’ll go get it.” And I thought, No, no, no it’s okay. Timeout. It’s good. I got to go see the other guy. Okay fine.”
So, I’m walking down the hall with the guy I’m meeting with, and he says, “What are you laughing at?” I says, well and I told him the story. Swear to God, on the wall behind the woman at receptionist was a big bronze plaque that had their vision, mission, purpose, and core values on. On the wall behind her, she could have gone like this (reaching behind him) and touched it but didn’t know it was there. Now granted it was a new process and I’m not criticizing but that is so typical of so many organizations. Is that we have all these visions, missions, purposes, and core values but then they sit on a wall somewhere. How much integrity are we acting in line with those?
Transfer over to you folks, us as humans. How many of us don’t have our own core values excavated and just attached to a corporate set (pause) or not? I’ve had clients come to me and go, “I hate my job.” Nine times out of ten when they figure out their own core values and what they were of the business. Guess what, complete miss. Sometimes a head on butt. So, please think about that gang. Go through your core values excavation process. Figure out what matters most to you and then you can roll from there. Put you in position to make those good decisions.
What else do we have from a what can we do perspective?
The next piece is around building fitness. Now I use the metaphor for MEPS. It stands for mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual. You can also insert financial in there. You can insert relational. You insert your areas of fitness. Now what I mean by this. Is how do we go about making sure that we’ve got a strong enough, not only foundation of values but also a strong foundation of relative fitness, whatever that means to you.
So, what do we do to go about creating mental fitness? What does that look like? Are we reading? Are we journaling? Are we mediating? Are we having conversations with those we love? What are we doing to create some mental resiliency?
Now I’ll talk about this one a little bit later in the presentation, but mental fitness is important. How many of us like to multi-task? Too often, especially in today’s world. And by the way, from a psychological perspective, you can’t multi-task. It’s just not possible. You can’t do two things of equal intensity at the same time. You can stack task. Where I can be on the phone and vacuuming my office here. (Motioning vacuuming) this doesn’t take any effort or energy and I’m deleting what I can pay attention to because I’m doing two things, sometimes three.
You can also switch tasks, back and forth between task and task. And how many in our offices do that? Far too frequently, where we are breaking up our train of thought and our ability to focus. So, that mental fitness comes in a lot of ways.
Over thinking doesn’t help. How many of it is create some peace and quiet? How many of you meditate? And carve some time out in the mornings or evenings to mediate. We really need to seek the values between the peaks of mental strain throughout the course of the day and taking some time outs. Quiet time. Some of our clients call that. So, what are you doing to make sure you are enhancing your mental fitness?
The “E” in MEPS is emotional fitness. How do we measure that? How do we assess that? How do we make sure we are emotionally strong? It goes to core values as well. How do we handle adversity? What gets us upset? Identify what those things are. Put clarity around them. Develop some strategies. Talking to friends and loved ones. Letting some of that out. A lot of us these days are keeping things in. Some people are letting everything out, maybe too much. Others are keeping things in, perhaps too much. That’s not healthy either and you know where you’re at. So, what’s our emotional level of fitness?
The “P” is physical. That’s a no-brainer. Are we getting enough sleep? Are we exercising as much as we need to? Are we eating the right stuff? That’s huge these days, and again from my perspective I’m seeing and this whole COVID thing, some are just shutting down and falling into really bad patterns. Others are saying you know what I can make it through this, we can make it through this and we’re going to go forward, no problem. And then there’s that very large group in the middle that’s just kind of is going through the motions. Just kind of hanging on for dear life. I don’t know where you are at or if that makes sense. But from a physical fitness perspective it’s not just working out. It’s not just losing weight. It’s about the rhythms and the routines and that’s what I want to put on screen next is the whole piece around building and establishing solid routines.
What do those routines look like? What time do you get up in the morning? What time do you go to bed at night? Are you monitoring your sleep? I wear a fitbit. I love monitoring my sleep. I wake up in the morning and I kind of think about how did I sleep today? And turn on my fitbit and it tells me, and it details it. Puts me in a position to make some better choices so, when I go to bed, and what I ingest before, what I ingest in the morning. That whole sleep piece.
Now there’s sleep and then there’s deep sleep and then there’s REM sleep. Rapid eye movement. We need a good healthy mix of all of those. Some people I find, in fact one of my closest friend was on sleeping pills to the point of where she just didn’t sleep. She may have kind of shut down a little bit at night, but she wasn’t getting any kind of value in that kind of sleep. So, what kind of sleep are you getting.
Exercise, we talked about that. Physical exercise. MOVE. We’re not moving enough. We’re stuck in our homes or quarantine. We’re not moving enough. Get out. WALK. For those of you who are outside and walking or riding your bike or walking your dog…tell me there’s tons of people out there now. People are starting to get it. Get outside. Get some fresh air. Go online, look up earthing or grounding. And getting outside and taking off your socks and shoes and connecting with the negative electrons of the earth. Oh my gosh, this is a huge trend. Go check that out online. We’re doing it here now. And getting outside as often as we can and just bare feet on the ground.
So, the physical fitness piece. Lifting weights, flexibility. It doesn’t have to be complicated. I’m fortunate enough I have a gym in my home. I used to belong to a gym two blocks from me I’m up in the North-West, in Edgemont and of course it’s shut down but I’m very fortunate enough I’ve got a gym in my home, but not everybody does. But find something to do just to get the body moving.
My clients who are working from home now. I find a lot of them now are getting up earlier and getting to their computers, earlier than they were before. They’re staying on their computers and/ or at work longer than they did before. The whole compute piece to and from work. A lot of people thought that was stressful. It’s missing now, so what happens? Instead of commuting to work and back we’re actually working longer.
I had a team on teams just recently and I went around the room. There’s 11 of them so we kind of joking that we got the Brady Bunch going plus a few and I said, “Okay, go around the room and share with us what your morning routine is.” And one of the owners, there’s two owners. One of the owners says, “Yeah I get up a X”, I forget what time it was, “and I’m at my computer about 15 minutes later.” And you see the whole room go, ohhh. And just shudder, and went, Oh my gosh. So, we’re starting earlier and ending later. That’s not good for our overall physical fitness. So, I could go on and on about this fitness stuff but please find something to do and establish those solid routines. What time you go to bed? What time are you up? Get a little regimented about it if you need to. Those of us who like to fly-off, not on the handle, but just kind of like to go with the flow. If that works for you great but please look at your physical fitness and find a way to fit that into your routine.
And of course, the “S” stands for spiritual. Whatever that means for any of you. That’s a personal choice, a personal decision. What might you be doing around that area? I find a lot of our clients now are reconnecting with some of those sources of what they believe to be spirituality. I think there’s a huge movement afoot around meditation. And just getting some calmness, especially in the morning. Even if it’s for two minutes. Focusing on your breathing or five or ten or a lot of people are up to 30 minutes now of just sitting still. That is so powerful.
Journaling is huge. I’m trying to encourage all of our clients to journal. I’ve managed to make it part of my routine. Every morning, every night I’m journaling. I’m in there and I’m writing about my day. How I felt. What happened. What I would change for the next day. Did I act in line with my core values? Wow, you know I heard one colleague of mine quite some time ago, actually it was a mentor. He said, “You want to live your life twice while you’re living it? Keep a journal. And that has always stuck with me, and it is so true. Just that quiet time to sit down and just write. It doesn’t matter, just write. That journaling piece can be a very, very powerful as well. Pausing. Taking time-outs. Just going time-out world.
You know if up this axis that you’re looking at (motioning vertically) is the level of intensity in my day and down here (motioning horizontally) is my day and time. Most of us do this (pointing finger and raising up and then levelling out) get way up here and level of intensity stays. And then at the theoretical end of the day instead of having good energy for the family it goes “pssspt” (finger moving down quickly). So, what we need to do in this is sure we’ll get some peaks (drawing drastic waves in the air) seek valleys. Peak, seek a valley. Peak, seek a valley. Your day tends to need to go like this (drawing waves in the air) but without seeking those valleys in here the overall your average of your intensity that day will be far too high. So, where can you take a time-out?
When I book clients for a half-an-hour it’s 25 minutes. I book them for an hour, it’s 55 minutes. And they know that, and they appreciate it too. Cause guess what, I’ve got to run to the men’s room, grab a snack, just sit and pause for a second, and then get back into it again. That’s a way to kind of seek the peaks or seek the valleys between the peaks. So, those solid routines are very critical. What are your routines like? Sit back and do an assessment. Figure out what it is your routines need to look like in order to create that solid foundation. And again, the foundation metaphor is that if we are standing on solid rock, it doesn’t matter what kind of weather comes at us, we’re going to be able to withstand that and withstand it well. So, that’s a big piece from there.
I love this line. (Be a pig) Most people look at me with crossed eyes and go, “What are you talking about?” Well, the funny story is this, playing for Canada one summer. And our coach Jack Donohue, who has since passed away, one of the biggest inspirations in my life. Which might sound weird because I got cut for two Olympic teams. Two different Olympic teams. 12 guys got to go to the Olympics, I was the 13 man twice but played on the team in between the two. So, you’d think this guy, I wouldn’t be a fan of him. My parents sure didn’t like him, but he was one of the biggest inspirations of my life. I have a picture of him and my baby girl, Niki, together the last time I saw coach Donohue with my daughter, I just took a picture. That sits right on my hallway as I walk out of my bedroom. And I see it every morning in my room, and it reminds me of who inspires me. Which is another story we’re going to get to.
However, we’re in a team meal with coach Donohue. It was a breakfast, and we were in Florida training for the world championships. We were there for two weeks. Practicing three times a day. Probably eating 7000 calories a day because it was so hot, and we were working out so hard. And then we had this one glorious breakfast the morning before we were going to fly to South America somewhere for a tournament. And I’ll never forget this. Coach would always try to teach us lessons, but he’d pick the guy furthest away and call him on it and talk to him one-on-one but everyone else is in between so, we’re all hearing the lesson.
So, I happen to be at the very end of the training table. Where coach is way over here (points to one side) and I was way over here (points to other side). Now, if you’ve ever seen a bunch of guys, you know 6’6” to 7’2” eat [BREAK] when they’re hungry (laughs). So, we have this huge buffet breakfast. All of us are carrying at least two plates. Some guys managed to carry three. Get down to the plate, get down to the table. You can’t hear anything except forks and knives doing this all over the place (banging on the table). So, our heads are down and we’re going at it and all of sudden I hear coach go, “Hey Larson.” [BREAK].
Ken: “Yeah, coach?”
He says, “Do you want to learn what real commitment is?”
I go, “Okay?” And of course, the whole team is eating kind of waiting for what this answer is going to be.
He says, “Look at your breakfast.”
He says, “Look at your breakfast. You got eggs there?”
Ken: “Yeah, I do coach.”
Coach: “Understand the chicken made a contribution.”
Ken: “K, coach I’m with you.”
Coach: “You got bacon?”
Ken: “I got bacon. I got sausage and I got ham.”
Coach: “Understand the pig made a real commitment.”
Now I wish I could see your faces (laughs). Some of you are going to go, “Huh? What?” Hopefully, I got a chuckle out of a few of you because the pig died to be on my plate. So, we were always joking around with that.
So, if you’re going to make any changes of result from today’s conversation or a conversation with anyone else. Please if you’re going to find something that’s going to work for you, commit. Be a pig. Don’t be a chicken. Get after it, now!
What I haven’t got on my slide here is the change curve which I’m just going to explain to you visually here. This has been my experience, if you go up this axis here (motions vertically) this is the amount of energy and effort it takes to make a change in our lives. Down here (motions horizontally) is approximate time to make it a part of our lives.
I talk to our individual clients and our team clients about operational DNA. What’s your operational DNA? So, when you get over a certain hump and you have a new habit, this positive habit that becomes part of your operational DNA, it’s just who you are. But when we’re picking out a new habit or a new concept or something new to build into our lives, what tends to happen, is we start of with some intensity and it’s going to take a lot of work to do (motioning a wave going up). But we partly bit off more than we can chew and the amount of intensity and effort we have to spend on that (moving his finger to the top and off of the screen) in order to get – see where I’m going with this one? (Arm is extended above his head) You can even see my hand. The amount of stress and pressure people put on themselves to make massive change. “Yeah, it’s New Year’s resolution time, I’d like to lose 20 pounds in three days.” Ah, no.
So, it’s going to take way too much energy and effort. So, what I recommend people when they do make changes, which I’m recommending to you folks today, make a small change. So, that in time you can kind of get over a max (drawing a wave that is smaller) no harder work than that. So, keep the ceiling low on the energy level (bringing the finger down low – the valley). And eventually it just becomes a part of who you are (moving finger level across the screen).
If you start doing this too much (moving finger up and off the screen) you’ll never get over the hump and you’ll fall back down. Which I hate to say is typical weight loss programs. You know we laugh at the gyms about how between January 1st and January 21st twice as packed with a bunch of people you’ve never seen before, who happen to be members, and then they’re all gone. Tends to happen this summer again too because they’re biting off more than they can chew. So, keep your peak of your change curve as low as you can and just add them in time and that’s where you’ll really get on the good side of establishing and building those routines. So, please be a pig when it comes to committing to what you’re going to do differently. So, that’s about building our foundations. And there’s so much more we can do in this area but I’m trying to keep this steady.
Now I’m not sure if any of you have heard about ikigai. When I sat down with my national team coach he said one time he says, “Ken there’s just three things you got to figure out in your life for career success.”
Ken: “What’s that coach?”
Coach: “Find out what you love to do. Go do it really well. Find someone to pay you for it.”
And of course, we all laugh but it’s so very true. And the only thing missing there is what the world needs. This all comes from Okinawa, 100 of years ago, where this term came from. A local Calgarian, Tim Tamashiro, has written a book on it. Go to TEDx, look up Tim Tamashiro and ikigai. It’s a great little presentation. I met Tim at a coffee shop some time ago, couple of years ago and got to meet him and got to know about this stuff and he’s still our friend today. Great little book.
All of our clients are trying to figure out what their ikigai’s are. What is it that you love to do most? What are you good at? What can you be paid for? And how does it contribute to the world? That’s where we get our passion, our mission, our vocation, and our profession.
Now if I was working with anyone of you, we would talk about this and if it’s relevant we would talk about, okay what do we need to do to figure out what our ikigai is?
Tim’s is, to delight. That’s it. He loves to delight people. He’s bloody good at it. He gets paid for it and he thinks the world needs it. If you ask me what my ikigai is I would say it’s to ignite. People say, “What do you do?” I say, “I’m an arsonist.” [People] “What?” I love to start fires in people. I love to ignite, inspiration, fires. Get people thinking in different ways that they get excited about that they can then go tackle.
Figure out what you love. Good at. Paid for. What the world needs. Great exercise to go through and there’s lots of resources to go through online to pick on this one. Highly recommend it as a source of your, or sorry as a contributor to your overall foundation, mentally and emotionally primarily.
Okay, we’ve probably all heard this term before mental toughness. But what is mental toughness really made up of? What are the components of it? In my master’s thesis around performance psychology. I researched the crap out of this, and I found all kinds of amazing resources.
I landed on one. It was written by Martin Seligman called Learned Optimism. I always thought of myself as an optimistic guy. So, I went and did a little homework on this, and I realized that there’s different ways of looking at it. There’s optimism and pessimism. Well, what did those really mean?
So, my question to you folk is, “Are you a strategic pessimist or are you a strategic optimist? Now what I mean by that is, if we were to look at a graph, notice my high-tech graphs (makes a graph shape with his arms). Impressive, huh? (laughs). If up this level (motions vertically) of the graph is performance, overall performance, however you define it. Across the flat axis here (motions horizontally), way over here would be extreme pessimism (points to far left of screen), Chicken Little, sky is falling. Way over here (points to far right of screen) the blind optimist, everything is fine. Even though it may not be.
Everyone assumes that the graph goes like this (angles arm so the angle goes from low on the left to high on the right). The less pessimistic you are and the more optimistic you are the higher performer you will be. And again, however you determine to define that but that’s not true. What the graph does is this (draws a couple of waves in the air). There’s two peaks with a valley in between.
So, what the research shows is, there are those people who are the strategic pessimists. And then there are those who are the strategic optimists and I say strategic very purposely. You know Chicken Little (points to left), ah Pollyanna (points to right), and then there’s a thing in the middle where people are stuck, they don’t know which way to go.
But here’s the difference, the strategic pessimist sees what can go wrong and is motivated to avoid it. Thereby, success. The strategic optimist, is motivated by the good that can happen, seeks it and they are a success. The strategic pessimist approach works well when risk is high. Police officers, firefighters, the mechanic that works on the jet engine that I’ll fly on next time, which could be a while. We want them to be strategic pessimists. Look at what can go wrong and ensure it doesn’t. Safety officers. You people understand your industry, how important safety is. They’re mostly strategic pessimistic view of things to make sure we don’t screw up. There by the bipartisan we succeed. Which one are you? You may not know.
I’m going to share some parameters with you that might help you understand that. And I’ve actually got a quiz that if anyone is interested, please reach out to email and my assistance email at the end at the end of the presentation.
So, the first one is around permanence. So, permanence means this, if a bad event happens to me how likely am I to stretch it into the future? Oh, that always happens to me. If you say language like, “Well I that always happens to me.” What you’re doing is taking the past and throwing it into the future and creating it. Where if it’s the bad even the pessimist will say that always happens to me. The optimist on a bad event will say, “Oh it was just that one time. It’s okay, move on.”
With a good event, the pessimist goes, “Oh that’s just this one time”. With a good event, the optimist goes, “Oh that always happens to me.” (laughs) So, you see how there, there’s a dichotomy there. And I’m being very simplistic and blunt about it but that’s the essence of what it is. If any of you want to figure out what your tendencies are please reach out to us.
And then other than permanence, is the next point. There’s three “P’s” by the way. This is pervasiveness. So, what pervasiveness means, is when a bad event happens to me to what degree do I feel it’s going to permeate other areas of my life? So, if I have a bad drive to work, just goes to show how crappy the days going to go and how bad my family time is going to be. So, the pessimist lets the negative events pervade all different areas of life.
The optimist, compartmentalizes. The optimist looks at the bad event and goes, “Oh, it’s just that one thing in that one area. It’s not going to affect anything.” And they move on, positively. And again, as you can tell what’s coming here, when a good event happens, what does the pessimist say? “Oh, it’s just that one thing.” Where the optimist will say, “Just goes to show what a great person I am, and all things are going to go on all well today and in the future.” And again, I’m being extreme about the language, but all of us rest naturally in somewhere in those scales.
Okay, the third P is personalization. So, when a bad event happens to me to what degree to I take responsibility for it? If a bad event happens to the pessimist, they take too much responsibility for that failure or that bad event. But maybe they had nothing to do with it. Absolutely, nothing to do with it. Whereas the optimist sees that bad event and takes a realistic amount again they’re setting up a realistic amount of responsibility for that.
On a good event, the pessimist will just kind of, “Well I didn’t do anything.” Well, good job, good job. [Pessimist] “Okay, fine.” And I got to tell ya, us Canadians are not very good at that. I’ve noticed that over the years. I go across the border quite a bit and I notice that a lot. And no offence to our American cousins, or any of you who are American in the room but our Canadians, we’re not very good at going, “Ah, thank you.” We’re kind of ah (looks uncomfortable). I even had one client after I praised her I said, “So, when you say…” She goes, “oh” (shies away and looks down).
Ken: Excuse me, what did you say?
Client (sheepishly responds): Thank you.
Ken: Try again, thank you. And mean it.
Take an appropriate amount of credit or responsibility for those good events. Appropriate amount. And what I found interesting high performers take way too much credit and responsibility for the bad events and don’t take enough for the good. So, interesting paradigm perhaps to discuss if and when the time comes with your colleagues.
So, those are the three Ps with mental toughness. And the strategic pessimist like I said will look at what can go wrong and be motivated to avoid it. The optimist does the opposite. Both succeed. I can’t stress that enough. So, be aware where your tendencies are and make a conscious choice.
Okay, one of our last components today is around motivation and inspiration. I think these two concepts are incredibly different. Motive to act versus to inspire, to breath in. All of us are built in with certain levels of motivation. And I think they’re fairly capped. What I’m trying to propose to people is that inspiration we can take from the outside world. Breath it in so it becomes a part of us.
To me, you can have motivation to do something and then it falls down again. Then you can do it again, and then it falls down again. It can go up and down, up and down. Where inspiration is more flowing. It’s breathing that in. It’s taking that in and being inspired from within. I don’t know about you folks, but inspiration just gets me going emotionally. Like watching inspirational movies and certain places in the movie, “Have you ever watched this, watch this, this is the best part.” And someone says something to something else or does someone for something else, I just go, “Oh wow.” But that’s me. I love to breath that stuff in and then help it inspire me.
I just mentioned my coach, Jack Donohue, with my daughter Nicole, that picture is right in front of the door that I leave in the bedroom every morning. And I look at it and it inspires me. Those people inspire me. So, there’s a big difference in between motivation and inspiration and hopefully that’s landing on you folks a little bit.
So, how can we inspire ourselves? I see a lot of motivational speakers out there and I’m not dissing them. There’s a need for them. And I remember going to a few and then going out to the parking lot and everyone is pumped up and excited. And I go, “Well what did they say?” [People] “Um, ah, um. Well you know, um. Ah and they don’t really know. To me motivation is temporary. It will get us jacked for a couple of minutes or for a small period of time and then it wanes. Inspiration can be more long term. So, how do we go about doing that?
And here’s one of the questions I have for you folks, Who Inspires you? One of my signature questions, which you’re about to get a few more on. Who in your life has done something either for you or for others that’s inspired you to be who you are? It’s a big question. And I love it when clients dive into this stuff and starts excavating who it is that inspires them.
I started a list. I think I’m a little over 20 now of people that I tap into from an inspirational point of view. A lot of them are deceased. Some are not, some are still around. My baby girl Niki, went through some really, really tough times. She’s a huge inspiration to me.
My coach Donohue, who cut me for two Olympics. He’s probably number one. Our next-door neighbor when I grew up. His name is Ted. He’s kind of like a big brother to me. He’s a big one up there. My cousin – you know I could go down the list.
There’s also a guy on my list that I think you all know. When I went to Simon Fraser for University my first couple of years out of high school. My first year out of high school I tried out for the varsity team at SFU in Burnaby and I got cut. I was 6’7”, 170 pounds and I couldn’t jump. I couldn’t touch the rim. Like I was the human hockey stick with hair. You can imagine this (motioning hair with his hands above his head) all that hair, yeah right. And I remember getting cut from the team. The next day I’m on the junior varsity team and we’re practicing right next to the varsity team.
So, this is the junior varsity over here (motions to the left) we’re talking to the coach (turns to face away from the varsity team). He says, “Okay, guys I know you’re all depressed because you didn’t make the team.” And we’re all doing this (turns to face the varsity team) not really paying attention.
And coach says to us: I know you’re all depressed because you didn’t make the team but we’re going to work you hard this year and our goal is to get you on that team next year.
Team: Okay coach, fine.
Coach: Here’s our assistant coach.
Team (reaching out to shake hands uninterested): Hi yeah, nice to meet you.
Coach: Here’s our athletic therapist.
Team (reaching out to shake hands uninterested): Hey how are you doing? Nice to meet you.
Coach: And here’s our team manager.
Turn and look, here’s a guy in a wheelchair. Lost his leg due to cancer the year before. Back in school again. Has to take all his courses all over again and he had this ugly matted down wig on that was – you know, before bald was cool. You know what I’m saying?
Team: How you doing? Nice to meet you.
Whatever, we practice. I go to class the next day, in he rolls in his wheelchair. And I said, “Hey man are you in this class?”
Team manager: Yeah, I got take this class again cause last year I had to bow out because of my leg.
Ken: Okay, great. Let’s sit together.
So, we sat together through math I think it was.
Ken: Okay, man see you later. See you at practice.
Team manager: Okay.
I go to chemistry. In he rolls.
Ken: Are you going to follow me to biology?
Team manager: Yep
Ken: You going to follow me to physics?
Team manager: Yep
Ken: I guess we’re classmates.
So, in my 1962 Ford Galaxy 500 I swing by his house in Coquitlam. We drive up to SFU and we spend all day in courses in the morning and then we’d got the gym in the afternoon and workout. He still worked out with only one leg. He would come into the gym in his wheelchair with a basketball in his lap and shoot amazingly well from sitting on his butt, I couldn’t believe it.
So, we really got to know each well that year. I went on back to Duncan, Vancouver Island for my summer job came back and he was gone. And I call him up,
Ken: Hey man, what’s going on? You’re not coming back to school?
Team manager: No, I’m taking a little bit of time off.
Ken: Okay, great. I’ll see you later.
I kind of lost track of him. Then one day I’m riding my motorcycle down into Coquitlam, on the side of the road there he was. Prosthetic leg, curly hair. I know some of you are already figuring some of this stuff out. And he was doing this half walk, half run on the sidewalk. I pulled my motorcycle up onto the sidewalk right behind him. Honked the horn. Scared the bejeezus out of him. He didn’t fall over, thankfully and he turns to me and goes, “Oh hey man, how are you doing?” Ken: "Good. How are you doing?" Little small talk back and forth. I’m on the sidewalk with my motorcycle trying not to get a ticket and trying not to knock him over. I finally said, “What are you doing man?” He goes, “I’m training.” Didn’t miss a step. I go, “What are you training for?” He goes, “I’m gonna run across Canada for Cancer research.”
(Perplexed look on his face) You all know who he is. I’ve got a picture in my living room. You can’t see from here cause I’m in my office of him. And I think of that all the time. I’ve blown my knees 11 times. 11 times (laughs). And every time I do, guess what? I think of him. This ain’t so bad. I can get through this. So, that man, Terry Fox, was a huge, is a huge inspiration for me. And when the chips are down he’s one of the people I go to as that source of inspiration.
All of you have people who inspire you to be who you are and inspire you to be a better person. Figure out who those people are. Write about them in your journal. I have one client actually met with each of them and said I want to meet with so and so and tell that person how much they inspire me and how. Wow. That’s brilliant.
What else can inspire us? Music, travel, ah the arts. I remember hearing Alberta Theatre Projects. Love going to see some of those plays. Highly inspiring. Reading. Activities. What are all the things that inspire us? From a what perspective, activity perspective that we can go and do and that we could, we could ingest. I mentioned my motorcycle. I love getting down to the end of the road at a “T” and going, left, or right? Which way am I going to go? Just pick one it doesn’t matter. Just ride. Get out to the mountains, pull over, stare at the mountain tops. Wow, to me that’s inspirational. So, what is it that inspires you? So, that’s a longer question and a longer conservation that hopefully you’ll engage in with folks that you love.
How does it inspire you? In what way? How does that apply? Does it help you get more fit? Does it help you reach out to more people that you enjoy? Does it change how you view your job and what you do as a professional? All kinds of questions to answer in here and to ask. And when are you going to do something about it? So, really the motivation and inspiration pieces a big one. A lot of people don’t understand it but when they do and get it. Figure out who inspires you? What inspires you? How it inspires you? And how you go about when you’re going to use that in a timely fashion. And I’ve given you a couple of examples that I have, and I’ve got clients all over the place that are doing similar things. It makes a big difference to help us get through these crazy tough times.
So, my question at the end of all of these sessions is, you know from so what to now what? You know some of you who are listening to this presentation oh yeah that’s nice, that’s nice. Others might be inspired to go do something about it. And remember do something small and easy. And that goes to my signature question. You guys remember this guy (photo of Jack Palance – actor). What’s the one thing? That’s one of my signature questions is well, I ask my clients at the end of every one of our meetings, okay what did we talk about? We talked about this, this, and this. Do we have clarity? Yes, we do. Okay, great. What’s the one thing? Not two, three, or four. What’s the one thing that’s going to bring you the most amount of value into your life over the short period of time? And perhaps long period of time.
So, if any of you would like this, I love this question. What’s your one small, big thing? Small in intensity, and in time, effort, maybe even money, that when you do consistently overtime, make it a part of your operational DNA, will give you the most amount of value on that short-term and long-term. What’s your one small, big thing? I can’t tell you how often gang where we’ll get into a coaching environment or even a conversation with a friend and all these huge elaborate plans gets made. Great. Write that stuff down but what can you do now?
When we ask the client, what’s the one thing you can do now and our next meeting? Might be two weeks, might be a month. Depends on the client and the structure of the coaching program. What’s one thing that you can do between now and our next meeting that will give you the most amount of value for your time and your effort, or so forth. That’s not too hard. It’s going to keep the change curve, remember the change curve? It’s going to keep it nice and low. Give yourself a realistic chance. Might be a task. Who knows what it is? That when you do it consistently over time is going to yield you the most amount of value on your time and your effort.
Oh, I got five things. Nope, one. We’ll put those on the back burner. We’ll come to those when we need them. So, please think about that. What’s the one thing you heard in today’s presentation. Or it’s the one thing that popped up in your mind that you hadn’t thought of in a while that was already there. What’s one thing that you’re already doing that you don’t have to change a whole lot but boy if you did a little more consistently it would really yield you the most amount of effort for that.
What’s one thing someone else is doing? Who’s in your world, your bubble that you admire, respect, or who perhaps inspires you? Have a conversation. Even if it’s over, this way. Which it pretty much has to be these days. But I hope you understand that core question, it’s really important.
If you can get that one thing going, then another, then another, then another. You know where I’m going with that. Good things happen as a result of that.
So, if I can start my close here. Here’s another one of my signature questions. When would now be a good time to start? My clients know it’s coming too.
Client: Oh, I’ll start right away.
Ken: Well, what does right away mean?
Client: Well next week.
Ken: Okay, what day?
Client: Oh, ahh, Monday?
Ken: Okay, what time?
I do get that strict about actions that are going to be decided on and committed to. Like a pig, of course. In order to get that stuff rolling in the direction it needs to go.
So, it’s been a pleasure being here. I wish I could see you in the crowd but that’s just not the way it is. And I hope that you got some value out of this presentation so, please take something this. And work on it in a way that’s going to work for you. Thank you so much.
ELIZA WITH PANDELL Ken that was wonderful. Thank you.
So, the one question Ken was, What are your thoughts are on defining the association as helping one another and these times of adapting to the new normal? Whether that needs more emphasis or being more directive?
KEN Yeah, that’s a really good question and my answer to that one is, you know in the presentation we talk about all this stuff that’s going on out there and then getting it down to a personal level. But what we didn’t touch on was the team level, the middle. Which is either my work team, my family team, my friend team, or my association team in your case with CAPL. What do we do as an organization to become a source of inspiration or a source of support for the team kind of piece? The word community or common unity. How do we, I’m thinking CAPL right now, how do we make that more of a priority? Do we need to go into it and analyze it a little bit more because of what’s going on? And let’s face it the new normal is not done yet. It’s going to take a while. I’m strategically pessimistic about that.
So, what do we do as an association to make sure that our members understand that we’re not just there like we were before? Here’s how we are now. So, I hope that answers the question. That I think if we can really pull our association together in a way that puts us into position to be in position to help our members even more than ever before by pulling the common unity together. I think that’s brilliant.
In our organizational work that we do as a consultant, we’re always trying to make sub-teams. And it’s sub-teams here and there. And triads where people get together in a triad and work together. And it’s that common unity that asynchronous work that organizations are doing now that I think we can take advantage of and language it, CAPL, in such a way that we’re elevating that. I think that is a source of inspiration and strength that a lot of organizations are not doing. So, if you’re going to tackle it? I would say from my perspective, double thumbs up.
ELIZA WITH PANDELL Awesome, thanks Ken. Not only did I thoroughly enjoy it, but I know the audience did too. The chat’s been lighting up with all sorts of positivity. So, thank you Ken for that. Okay everyone. Thanks again for joining us today. Have a wonderful afternoon, and we'll hope to see you next time.